Kyle Busch Motorsports has fielded one of the most successful Truck Series operations in recent years, with Busch winning six times in just 16 series starts last season. KBM will field Toyotas on the NASCAR Nationwide Series for the first time in 2012, and initial plans called for Busch to compete regularly in both Nationwide and Trucks, in addition to his full-time Sprint Cup championship effort with Gibbs. But KBM General Manager Rick Ren confirmed last week that Busch will probably not run any Truck Series races in 2012, and may not compete in the Nationwide Series either; all at the request of JGR.
Since that announcement, Sirius-Speedway.com has hosted a lively debate on the topic, with Kyle Busch fans protesting what they consider unfair treatment of Busch by JGR and its sponsor M&Ms, while Busch’s detractors argue that he got what he deserved.
The debate raises some interesting questions about just how much control a team should have over its driver; both on and off the race track. There is no doubt that both JGR and M&Ms were damaged when Busch wrecked Ron Hornaday under caution at Texas Motor Speedway. Busch was parked by NASCAR and not allowed to take part in that weekend’s Sprint Cup Series race, with substitute driver Michael McDowell finishing a disappointing 33rd. In light of the controversy that followed, M&Ms chose to remove itself from JGR’s #18 Toyota for the final two races of the season at Phoenix and Homestead, costing them exposure and the team money. Busch’s Texas ban – and two more bad days at Phoenix and Homestead – dropped him to 12th in the final championship standings; resulting in another significant financial blow to the team.
Does Joe Gibbs Racing have the right to restrict Kyle Busch’s participation in the NASCAR Nationwide and Camping World Truck Series? As an employer that pays him millions of dollars each year to drive in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series -- dollars that almost certainly helped finance the construction and continued operation of Kyle Busch Motorsports – is JGR within its rights to have Busch race only for them in 2012?
For the record, Joe Gibbs has not always restricted his drivers to the Sprint Cup Series, or even to NASCAR. Tony Stewart is notorious for racing Sprint Cars and midgets on off weekends from Sprint Cup competition, and Kasey Kahne raised a few eyebrows by flipping a 410 Sprint Car out of the park at Pennsylvania’s Williams Grove Speedway last summer.
In the past, other team owners have also requested that their drivers avoid taking part in non-Sprint Cup Series events. Hendrick Motorsports teammates Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon rarely compete in the Nationwide and Truck Series, honoring team owner Rick Hendrick’s wish that they concentrate on their Sunday jobs and not endanger themselves by taking part in other forms of racing.
None of us expect him to do so.
My bosses here at MRN Radio do not allow me to work for other motorsports media outlets; a restriction I consider to be both fair and reasonable. Joe Gibbs Racing seems to be asking the same of Kyle Busch. At the very least, Joe and JD Gibbs seem to want Busch to drive JGR equipment – and only JGR equipment -- next season. That way, if he does something goofy that jeopardizes their team and its sponsors, at least he'll have done it on their watch.
remove him from nascar all together
ReplyDeleteAgree 100% with the Gibbs desicion. Kyle Busch needs to prove to the whole sport that he is ready to be a level headed competitor. When the Nationwide series or Camping World Truck Series leads to consequences and or excess stress, its time to take a step back and focus on your Sprint Cup Chase. With limited options, none as good as his current, Busch will obey the new restrictions. Kyledzimmerman on Twitter.
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ReplyDeleteKinda like the world of outlaws not allowing there followers of the tour to not race anywhere else other than with them. They market there drivers therefore they are protecting there investment.
ReplyDeleteit's not unfair in my humble opinion. if i were paying him to race my car and win, then i would expect him to be focused on doing "just" that. besides, there is the argument that so many sprint drivers racing in the truck and nationwide series hurts the lesser teams with unknown drivers to excel and become the stars of tomorrow. i, for one, would like to see all sprint drivers out of the other two series altogether.
ReplyDeleteI do think it's disappointing that MARS and JGR feel they should exercise such control. But furthermore, it's the WRONG choice. Psychologically speaking, the best way to get someone to behave is by withholding something they want if they misbehave (referred to as negative punishment or omission training). I don't see JGR's preemptive ban as an action that is helpful in achieving their goals.
ReplyDeleteOwn up to it haters,there is only one reason you don't want Kyle in the race and that is your favoriites odds drop like a rock.Come on recognize the talent that is Kyle Busch.
ReplyDeleteHaters gonna hate
ReplyDeleteI guess they feel it's a continuing punishment for one of the best drives of this generation. But when is enough enough? How much more penance will he have to do until he is forgiven? Cut off his ear? maybe sacrifice a goat?
I look at this as M&M's way of telling Kyle who the boss really is. And what makes it all the more bizarre, these drivers are FREE AGENTS. M&M's doesn't own a NASCAR franchise like stick and ball teams. They have no right to control the drivers lives. I see this as an ominous sign for the entire sport.
When a sponsor decides to pay it's money to name a stadium, and that is BIG money, do they then have the right to control the players lives on AND off the field?
This is a very bad sign and foreboding for the sport.
Doug in NJ
I think yes because JGR wont win the points race with Kyle behind the wheel because he gonna pick the cup for is points to count I think its smart not taking anything from Kyle because he can drive just smart with new points races now
ReplyDeleteThrow the communists out of NASCAR!!! Busch owns his own team and neither JGR nor M&M's should be able to dictate how he operates his own company. It would be different if he drove for someone else, but not his own equipment. Are they going to make up the financial losses Busch will endure because he is not allowed to run his own equipment?
ReplyDeleteI work for Lowe's. As part of the hiring packet, I am not allowedto work part time for home depot. Makes sence. So why would it make any less sence for KB to be running for any other race team in "NASCAR", wheather he owns the team or not. Can we say"conflict of interest"?
ReplyDeleteIs it JGR or M&M Mars forcing him to give it up?
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting how many people don't realize that many of the drivers already HAVE contracts that state they cannot drive in other series (or at least they have a very minimal ability to do so). Besides that, Kyle can disagree with this and get himself out of his contract. Pretty simple, folks - if he doesn't like it, he can find a job elsewhere...just like any other driver.
ReplyDeleteChrissy
If they don't realize that, Chrissy, it's because they didn't read the column. JGR is far from the only team to keep a driver confined to Cup.
ReplyDeleteThanks everyone for the civility, just one deleted post so far!
I PERSONALLY DISAGREE with the rumor that is going around about kyle busch , now what does he do about his truck team and now his nationwide car if he cannot fill the seat with a descent driver, he will lose money ,you know who else will lose the FANS AND THE TRACK KYLE BUSCH PUTS people in the stands love him or hate him Iam a kyle busch fan and usually show up for all 3 events but if they make him race sprint cup only one race for me and other's,"I promise you" love him or despise him he brings fans to the track AND MONEY into people's pocket's and thats a good thing no matter the driver especially in this economy racefan18
ReplyDeleteYes I agree that JGR shouldn't let Kyle run in Trucks or NW, as he bombs every year when the Chase starts from over doing through out the regular season.
ReplyDeleteLet Kyle hire 'up and coming' drivers for the Truck and NW series like other teams do. If he want to drive in all three series I suggest he start his own Cup Team, but he might have problems finding sponsors who want to back him when JGR isn't there to control Kyle temper. When is JGR going to say that Kyle isn't worth the headache.
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ReplyDeleteIn my own personal opinion, I grew up looking at the Busch Series as AAA and when they started running trucks, AA. Go go from one series to the next. I have never had an issue with younger or less experienced drivers competing in multiple series, but someone with a skill set of KB or even Edwards and Harvick for that matter is only taking rides away from the guys and girls that are still learning. I know that they love to race and that passion got them to where they are today. In most cases, these guys are not on the same playing field as the rest of the competition on the lower levels. They have not only better equipment, but they simply have more talent to begin with. Let's face the facts though, KB, KH, or Edwards have never won a Cup title. Before this group, we had Mark Martin who ran a lot of Nationwide races... and he is the "best driver never to have won a cup." Maybe all three should back off and concentrate on NSCS.
ReplyDeleteSteve
If not happy call mm mars and tell them
ReplyDeleteJGR has given too much control to a SPONSOR!!! It's a sad day when a sponsor has that much control over a race team THEY DO NOT OWN, THEY ONLY SPONSOR!!! Everyone keeps saying Kyle can leave if he want's to. WELL SO CAN MARS/M&M'S FOLKS. As much as you hater's DO NOT want to admit it, Kyle Busch is a hot comodity. MARS know's if they left another sponsor would JUMP at the chance to have Kyle Busch drive a Sprint Cup car with their color's all over it. If you don't believe that then investigate the profit's MARS has enjoyed with Kyle as their driver. MARS is NOT about to let go of the golden goose that is Kyle Busch. Why do you think they'er going to allowe him to drive a limited number of Nationwide races? So MARS can have a winning driver behind the wheel of the Nationwide car's MARS will sponsor.
ReplyDeleteI love the hell out of Kyle Busch and always will. I'll support what ever decision he makes. But with the way this stinks I wish Kyle WOULD WALK!!! I'd be willing to bet he'd find sponsorship for a Cup car.
Who is going to pay to watch no-names race" Kyle brings excitement to the Trucks and Nationwide? Not many will watch without him. I won't!
ReplyDeleteNobody stirs the pot, then sits back and watches what brews up better than the Godfather of motorsports.... Momma Godfather must be very proud of her little feller....
ReplyDeleteI believe that it may be good for Kyle to drive just the Sprint car for a year and nothing else. JGR racing receives a lot of money from Mars. If Kyle goes out in another series and does what he did last year, Mars may decide to pull there sponsorship, which means JGR looses millions of dollars and Kyle would be out a job. Do you want Kyle to end up like his brother, racing in the series in a lesser funded ride. Plus maybe this will teach him that it's not okay to pound a guy in the wall just because he raced me like I race them on a regular basics.
ReplyDeleteI want to see Kyle fail and suffer the same embarassment as Kurt
ReplyDelete68 MILLION DOLLARS is what Kyle made for MARS. Mars should be on their FREAKING knees thanking Kyle.
ReplyDeleteThey have NO right in interfering with KBM. Once JGR gave Kyle the go ahead . They should not be able to interfere with his investments. Unless they are going to make up his losses.
This is all a bunch of crap. Where was all this Holier than thou outrage when BURTAN WRECKED GORDAN UNDER CAUTION. The EXACT same way Kyle wrecked Ron. There WASN'T ANY. And all the media LOVED it. Said it was great for the sport. Bunch of hypocritical BS.
And if MARS sponsors any or any form of JGR new Trucks entries or NW-It will show me WHY THEY REALLY do not want Kyle racing in either. They do not want him competing against them. More I think about it--It was perfectly fine for Kyle to race in the NW when he was winning all the races for JGR. But know it isn't????? Ok that makes JGR look real good.
I guess that is one way to prevent the Rowdy one from "sweeping" all 3 events - don't allow him to compete in all of'em...pretty pathetic, from a racers viewpoint.
ReplyDeletePull your sponsorship Mars if Kyle doesn't jump through hoops for you. There will be a long list of other sponsors signing on if you leave. Who you got that's going to make the $$ Kyle makes for your company? Biggest talent out there.
ReplyDeleteI look at it this way. What's more important your full time job ie Cup or some part time job? You have a choice. You don't like whats being said then leave and go somewhere else.
ReplyDeleteAfter listening to the comments on the show today (and I'll catch more on the Midnight re-run don't forget to tune in evryone) for some, there is no amount of punishment for Kyle that will satisfy them. Additionally, two years ago, when the Edwards/Keselowski feud was going on, I HEARD NOTHING like I hear today regarding the banning of either of them from the sport.
ReplyDeleteHaters gonna hate.
Doug from NJ
Pretty clear here, those who like him are outraged by JGR's decision; and those who dislike him are in agreeance.
ReplyDeleteI neither like nor dislike him, I don't cheer for him nor boo him, I will give hime credit for his driving ability.
I have no issue with this since in most employer/employee relationships you do as your told or get a new job
IF Kyle has an issue with this he can certainly seek employment at a team that would allow him to do this, and I bet there are more than one that would accomodate him
I feel Kyle deserves "punishment". That said, I also believe that the best thing is that Kyle is involved with JGR. JGR is about the whole person, etc. HOWEVER, I do think it is a bit harsh to make Kyle stop racing on HIS own truck team. I agree, perhaps he needs to stop the Nationwide racing, concentrate on Sprint. But, JGR is kind of crossing the line, aren't they? by saying no to Kyle Truck team?
ReplyDeleteI only watch the truck race to see Kyle! Will spend my time and money somewhere elce!
ReplyDeleteHey Dave ...Big Fan ...I agree for a few reasons. Most of us mature with age. Kyle is under contract and paid well (I don't know How Much), but I am guessing well by JGR. He has (Joe gibbs) an investment in Kyles Behavior. It seems that Kyle does not have a grip on his behavior, as he pretty much does what ever crosses his mind at the time. Either get in line and do as the rest of the "TEAM", or get out and go your own way. Stop damaging all by the tantrums. Have your tantrums if you wish!!!!!, But don't tarnish others by them. Thanks, Alan
ReplyDeleteLove how every other driver is justified in taking out Kyle. Harvick can state on T.V. that he is going to wreck Kyle & not let him when the Owners Championship. And then over the next 5 weeks does JUST that. But when Kyle finally has enough-he isn't allowed to defend his team.
ReplyDeleteWhat so called tantrums have Kyle had this year. How about Harvicks tantrums. Last Truck & NW race he spun or hit at least 5 drivers--but that ok.
Dave -didn't like the comments on your original story-so you had to rewrite it.
Just so I understand the situation. KBM owns and operates the Camping world series truck #18. Even though the equipment comes from JGR, he is being told he cannot drive his "own" truck?
ReplyDeleteThis is from Kyle's twitter today: Stopped by KBM today, guys got another Nationwide Series Camry built. Exciting 2012 ahead for KBM
ReplyDeleteI take more stock in those two sentences from Kyle-THAN Moody's two whole articles.
KBM equipment doesn't come from JGR. JGR has no business ties at all to KBM.
And another one from KBM twitter:
ReplyDeleteKB watching the KBM guys work on the Nationwide Series car. Who is excited that KBM will be moving to Nationwide... http://fb.me/PtPi6aId
I'm wondering what exactly is in Kyle's contract?
ReplyDeleteMany drivers contract specify participation, or lack thereof, in other series and other forms of racing.
As he's raced other seriers in the past, and as what's been reported is he was "asked" not to this year, that contracturally he is free to compete, but has chosen to respect his cup team's, and sponsors wishes. That pretty much removes any need for discussion, don't it?
I think a release from contract is imminent..... Alan
ReplyDeleteFor the select few of you who clearly cannot read and/or comprehend, nowhere in the article did iI say that KBM will not field Nationwide cars next season. As a matter of fact, I specifically said that they will.
ReplyDeleteRick Ren (General Manager of KBM and Kyle's right-hand man) says he does not believe Kyle will run any Truck races in 2012, and possibly no Nationwide races, either. If that's not good enough for you, feel free to live in your state of denial.
Dave,
ReplyDeleteI was in the car listening to the show at 6:30..
So wanted to call in to call an ID10T listener on his comment that He watched M&M Mars Stock every day after the Texas race.. Mars is a private company. No stock holders, no public stock. All family owned. They don't even have to file end of year like publicly traded companies. So that caller was full of .. blinker fluid. Thanks Joe for keeping Kyle.
What state of denial. Saying "he does not believe" is not the same thing has saying " he will not". Changes the meaning of the sentence completely.
ReplyDeleteAnd why is it wrong that some of us would rather wait for an official statement from Kyle/KBM & or JD/JGR????
Also why can't I feel positive about the very positive statement that Kyle made about KBM-just today.
is it because it goes against the "dumping "on Kyle agenda? And the implying that KBM is in trouble-even tho you will deny that.
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ReplyDeleteI'll compare it this way:
ReplyDeleteIf I'm an NFL coach....Norv Turner of the Chargers, let's say. And, on Sunday, my Chargers get penalized for something that Phillip Rivers did when he was playing a rec league flag football game on Saturday????......well, I'm gonna go to Rivers and tell him that's enough of the flag football crap!
Toneman in California
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ReplyDeleteI can understand jgr's not wanting kyle to compete against them. I get that. They should not allow kyle to compete in nationwide. But kyle should be able to run the truck races since jgr doesn't run trucks. Im sure if u ask kevin harvick, there is a no compete clause in his contract. Prob played some role in selling out to rcr.
ReplyDeleteWow, talk about some nasty comments... Coach Gibbs should die? Seriously?
ReplyDeletePeople, this is a business and Kyle knows that, shouldnt you all know it too? Kyles behavior in the truck series caused him to be suspended for a Cup race. End of story. He is lucky he hasnt been removed from his ride like his older brother, and very talented former cup champion, Kurt. Its not all about how good a driver you are, you need to be able to see the big picture and the big picture is that Kyle, driving his own truck, was suspended from a Cup race in a JGR ride. The fact that he was out of championship contention is a moot point because next time he could have been in contention. JGR is making sure there will be no next time.
As far as Mars doing sponsorship? They are paying JGR MILLIONS of dollars, so yes, they do have quite a bit of say in what the drivers do. Please dont be naive enough to actually believe that finding another sponsor to replace them will be as easy as some of you seem to think, have you not been paying attention the last few years? Because of a lack of sponsorship, RCR and Roush Fenway are now 3 car operations, the 43 is in danger of shutting down, JGR cant fund a 4th team... and some company will come and just give JGR millions to allow a temperamental driver with an attitude to drive for them? Do you REALLY think that?
Look at Kyles history of sub-par performance in the chase, look at his history of blowing his top at the most inappropriate times. Could it be that maybe he needs to be reeled in a little bit in order to be a championship caliber driver on the Cup level, where it really counts?
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ReplyDeletei think the real problem for rick ren is the fact that the time that kyle would have raced was 'free' since kyle would not have received a salary from kbm. not only does kyle have to convince the sponsors to stay, he also has to pay a driver for those races. can kyle afford to not race in his own equipment?
ReplyDeletekyle was very open about the fact that starting the truck team was more expensive than he originally budgeted. he stated that perhaps he would stay healthy long enough to build his nest egg back up. essentially i suppose kyle is the poorest millionaire in nascar.
but i do applaud kyle for that honesty. their are others who stand before you saying "all is well" ala kevin bacon in animal house. then two days later their is another annoucement of how a portion os his team was sold off to another investor.
It's real simple guys. If Kyle Bush doesn't like the restrictions, he can ante up a few million to start his OWN Cup team and, then, find a sponsor that will pay his team $20M a year and allow him to say and do whatever and whenever he wants. Good luck with that one, Kyle.
ReplyDeleteI go to NNS races to see drivers like Kyle, Keselowski, and Edwards. No reason to pay those inflated ticket prices to see the start and parks.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou cant on the one hand hope for someone to die a slow painful death and then on the other pontificate about the Mars company feeding sugar to the poor children who will become fat and die, as though you are holier than thou. But I digress.
You say nobody is neutral here? I for one am. I am pointing out the business realities of the sport. Mars pays millions to JGR, and JGR pays Kyles primary paycheck. If Kyle doesnt like the decision - and I suspect most of us who work for a living have had times when we disagreed with our employers decision - he can leave. I suspect he wont leave, so it seems like a moot point to me.
When I started Sirius-Speedway.com, I did not allow visitors to post comments. Honestly, I feared having this site become the kind of profanity filled cesspool so many other online racing sites have become over the years. I was eventually convinced to allow visitor commentary, and the vast majority of readers have made the most of the opportunity.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, a handful of our "Anonymous" posters have taken advantage of this forum to post a series of extremely hateful, expletive-filled comments in recent weeks.
One way or another, it's going to stop.
If you are physically incapable of communicating without four-letter words, we don't want you here. If you are incapable of having a discussion without insulting those who disagree with you, you are also not wanted. If you cannot discuss NASCAR without wishing someone dead, I invite you to spend your online time elsewhere.
I will continue to delete offensive comments; every single one of them, without fail. They take 15 minutes to write, and less than a second to delete with a single click of the mouse.
It's really very simple.
Sirius-Speedway.com is my blog. I pay the bills, I post the content, and I make the rules. If you love NASCAR and enjoy talking with people who share that love, you are welcome here.
If you're a foul-mouthed lout who cannot abide by the "no profanity, no name-calling" rule, feel free to boycott this site and go elsewhere. You will not be missed.
An old saying fits this.
ReplyDelete"Money rules. He who has the money makes the rules."
If you have a problem w/ that senario, go get your own money.
Robert Y
Cincinnati
I feel sorry for Rick Ren who has hitched on
ReplyDeletewith KBM. He has to have second thoughts about his situation and future opportunity.
I understand why they want to do this but I will miss him in the truck and car, he is a exciting driver. I started watching the truck races because of him. 88 Fan.
ReplyDeleteBTW, killing children and dying of old age are two entriely different propositions. But I would have thought a genius like you would figure that out. Along with the fact that Kyle is free to dog his ride this year, collect his money and build a nest egg for his own Cup team. Maybe the "new Kyle" will be the one who just doesn't give a damn about the people who failed to support him when he was harassed by KHI and RCR all season and only retaliated at the end. And calling Joe Gibbs on being a fake preacher is not out of bounds either. He made his name as a football coach, not as the Second Coming of Christ as he would have us think. Gibbs is the biggest hypocrite in sports and MARS is the biggest hypocrite among sponsors. May they both get the punishment they richly deserve.
ReplyDeleteBottom line is you can only take so much crap from someone, and I am so sick of the Busch boys it takes away some of the joy that nascar brings, stay out of the minor league and pick one series to make an ass out of your self!
ReplyDeleteSounds like Dave's a little MOODY today, any blog I have ever read people are negative, his first day on the job?
ReplyDeleteDollar General has a big investment in KBM. And a lot of that is based on Kyle driving the #18 truck. I hope M&M and JGR is prepared to either make a mjor contribution to Dollar General or be prepared for a major lawsuit that could get a lot more ugly for M&M (forced child labor etc.) than it will be for Dollar General and other KBM sponsors.
ReplyDeleteBut I think a more important story will be if Kurt does well at Finch's. It would make the major teams less important and would open new possibilities.
Let's say KBM moves all the way up to Sprint after a good year in Nationwide. Dollar General could move to KBM as a sponsor leaving JGR without sponsorship for the #20. How happy will M&M be having Lagano as their driver? JGR and M&M win the battle but lose the war.
Mars sponsors Kyles #18 Truck effort to some extent as they are listed on his site as a sponsor.
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ReplyDeleteANd enjoy those M&M's. Maybe you will choke on them!
ReplyDeleteWether it is good for Kyle to not race in the series isn't the point in this situation. I agree that Kyle should move away from the lower series races and focus on cup, but that should be his decision. He is being forced out of his own team's truck (and car?) because of MARs and Joe Gibbs. That's there decision and they are entitled to it, but what happens if sponsors pull out of KBM?
ReplyDeleteIt was stated in the original report that all or most of the sponsors were signed under the agreement that Kyle would be in the truck for x amount of races. What happens when Traxxas doesn't want to sponsor the replacement? What happens when Dollar General doesn't want to sponsor the replacement? What happens when NOS doesn't want to sponsor the replacement?
Will Joe Gibbs Racing put up the money and put their name on the truck? Will MARs put up the money and upt their product on the truck? I don't see that happening. The sport is in dire strain for sponsorship and teams in the under series. It's not the time nor the place for Joe Gibbs and MARs to show their muscle and threaten another team.
Kyle made a mistake at Texas, he'll learn from it but that doesn't mean you have to hold 40-50 people accountable with him. They are playing russian roulette with an entire team's job and their families, that is not justified.
If Joe Gibbs is going to do this, then Kyle, Joey, or Denny need not step foot in a JGR Nationwide car in 2012.
Fair is fair.
And for the record... you can't really compare this situation to working for an "enemy" (another media outlet, working at lowes and home depot, etc.) because Kyle wouldn't be competing against JGR in the Truck series.
ReplyDeleteIf anything, it's a move which shows bad behavior (no matter who you are) will catch up with you. His goal is the 200 win thing. That goes away with this move and he's the only one to blame. Like any decent company, JGR is protecting their investment and major asset to the company for everyone involved. It's a big picture move.
ReplyDeleteBig picture move my butt. Where was Joe Gibbs public outrage when Harvick/RCR where taken out his drivers. If I recall Harvick took out Joey 3xs, Denny once. AND Harvick showed his jealous bully self when he put Kyle in the wall at Homestead. Because he couldn't handle the fact that Kyle beat him twice that weekend in the Trucks & NW. And that what gets me angry---how the media (except Jimmy Spencer) rewrites history and convinatlly leave out all the things Harvick has done to Kyle. All to continue to suck up to RCR and paint Kyle as the bad guy.
ReplyDeleteSo according to all of you Haters. Harvick is justified in announcing that he was going to wreck out Kyle every chance he got. And did just that. But Kyle isn't justified in standing up for himself. And since when has Hornaday become an angel?????
The Hyprocracy in how the media, haters, & NASCAR deals with Kyle is unbelievable.
I belive that if this year will b the make it or break it year for Kyle. He has made enough money in the sport to crate a Truck and Nationwide team. This tels me if he so decides to he could make a cup team. I do not know who would sponcer him if he did because of the rants he has gone on oer the years but he has cost JGR alot of money. He is on his last leg and I for one expet him to fail and history to repeat itself once again when it comes to the Busch Brothers. Kurt is now in a low budget ride because of his rantings and his own decisions I would expect Kyle to follow real soon
ReplyDeleteThe hell with M7M's try Reese's Pieces, Mars is not the only sponsor for Kyle. and JGR is not the only race team.
ReplyDeleteFreaking LOVE the last POST!!!! You said EVERYTHING I feel!!!.
ReplyDeleteYou can also go on you tube and see countless videos of Harvick and Hornady acting like jerks.
ReplyDeleteIt may not be justified however, JGR signs the pay check to KB and Mars signs the pay checks to JGR. If Kyle wants to run truck and or Nationwide races he is free to do so...My employer gives me their requirements for me remain employed and I abide by those Kyle can make the choice to either abide by JGR's request or seek employment elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteSeems as though you broke your own rule of "no name calling" there Dave??
ReplyDelete...For the select few of you who clearly cannot read and/or comprehend....
And the rule "having a discussion without insulting those who disagree with you"
....feel free to live in your state of denial...
Real class there.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteDave has a little time-warp problem. A year or two ago, he could write a vitriolic, hatred-filled column about Kyle Busch and get only agreement from anyone who commented. But the times they are a 'changing. Kyle is still one of the most hated drivers in NASCAR (like Dale Sr.), but he has also become one of the most popular drivers in NASCAR. And you don't mess with Rowdy Nation anymore. Because we are like dogs who have been kicked once too often - we are now the mean, nasty ones who will bite your ass and stick up for our driver. Especially when we see the double standard that NASCAR and the media apply to him. Richard Childress commits a felony against Kyle at a NASCAR-sanctioned event, and NASCAR gives him a slap on the wrist. What if Kyle had assaulted Richard? He would have been hauled off to jail and banned for the season.
ReplyDeleteNow this crap about not being allowed to drive the cars and trucks Kyle owns himself? Who the he!! do Joe Gibbs and "Mr. Mars" think they are?
"Kyle, when you're feelin' down and your resistance is low; Light another cigarette and let yourself go; This is your life; Don't play hard to get; It's a free world
All you have to do is play the game."
You have simply been playing the wrong game all these years - you know, the one where you thought winning races was your job. You now have a new job - outgame the gamers and direct your own career. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer - and make no mistake, Joe Gibbs is your enemy.
We will see how long the last 3 post survive!!!
ReplyDeleteThe ones DEFENDING Kyle against the PURE BIASED HYPOCRISY in the media against Kyle from the ALL 3 of the daily radio show on SIRIUS Nascar, NASCAR MEDIA.
And the BIASED in what NASCAR did to Kyle-compared to their policy of doing ABSOLUTE NOTHING to every other driver doing the EXACT same thing-and especially BITTER JEALOUS HARVICK.
And yes we are ANGRY with how Joe Gibbs/JGR & MARS DID NOT stand by Kyle. And what Dave is saying they are going to continue to do. Like previous posters have stated KYLE is their CASH COW.
Well, two out of the last three "Anonymous" posts will remain up, surprising the writers, I'm sure.
ReplyDeleteYou see, no matter how some of you try to complicate or confuse the issue, it's still a pretty simple rule. No profanity, no name calling. Nobody has ever gotten deleted simply for supporting Kyle Busch. Nobody has ever gotten deleted for disagreeing with me. The only reason people get deleted is for calling other people -- drivers, owners, media members or other posters -- names, or using profanity.
It's amusing how the same small group of people continues to criticize me for my "vitriolic, hatred-filled columns" about Kyle, when a year or so ago, plenty of people accused me of being his apologist. You were entitled to those opinions then, and you're entitled to them now. But you're wrong, both ways.
I'm not a Kyle hater, and I'm also not a Kyle lover. I am simply an observer of the sport who calls them like he sees them. Personally, I like Kyle Busch and think he is one of the most talented drivers ever to twist a wheel in NASCAR. He adds a lot to the sport, and I hope he stays a part of the sport for decades. Unfortunately, he has also done things -- both on and off the race track -- that damage the sport, his team, his sponsors and himself, in my opinion.
Loyalty is a wonderful thing. But blind loyalty is not so wonderful. Kyle himself admits that he has done things to damage his team and sponsors; things he regrets and hopes never to repeat. I wonder why a small number of his fans continue to defend the actions that Kyle himself has not attenpted to defend. But again, that's your right, if you choose to exercise it.
For myself, I will continue to support Kyle when I think he deserves it. I will also continue to criticize him when I think he deserves it.
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ReplyDeleteYou were doing SO well, "Anonymous." Right up until the final paragraph, when you just couldn't avoid the name calling. Trust me, it really is possible to disagree with someone without calling them names.
ReplyDeleteFeel free to try again. Or not.
Publish the following: Per Forbes Magazine, Kyle Busch provides more advertising per sponsor dollar invested than any NASCAR driver. So whatever his perceived sins against society, YOU, Dave, are the one who brought up business, and in business, Kyle is pure gold to whoever utilizes his name or driving services. This notwithstanding an unprecedented amount of hate press directed at him.
ReplyDeleteI suggest a full discussion of Joe Gibbs' ill-conceived decision to attempt to force Kyle out of running his own teams and taking care of his employeees should include this particular fact. Kyle is good for JGR and he is good for his sponsors and he is good for NASCAR.
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ReplyDeleteThere is no question that Kyle earned a HUGE amount of exposure for his sponsors; the most of any driver in NASCAR. We have discussed that repeatedly on Sirius Speedway in the last 2-3 weeks.
ReplyDeleteSo, if you admit that, how is he a negative influence on his sponsors or NASCAR? We know the bottom line for the sponsors, NASCAR, and the team is MONEY. And all exposure is worth money. All that family values stuff that NASCAR spouts is pure wiindow-dressing. This is a business and business runs on money. Kyle brings in money. Therefore, Kyle is good for NASCAR, his sponsors and JGR.
ReplyDeleteDo you seriously think some kid is gonna eat a Snickers and think, "Wow, someday I can ram Ron Hornaday's truck because Kyle did it?" This is purely absurd. Nothing he does on the track has any influence on his market value - except winning. And Joe Gibbs is attempting to curtail that. I don't know how to say this without calling Joe a name, so I will just say he is wrong. And so are you.
P.S. I don't follow Sirius Speedway and never will; I found this discussion by accident, and I will be sure to stay away from it in the future, because you have said nothing ifnormative or worthwhile to me.
You say, "Nothing he does on the track has any influence on his market value - except winning." If the winning impacts everyone in a positive manner, how does a HUGE controversy like Kyle and JGR just suffered through not have a negative impact?
ReplyDeleteObviously M&Ms was impacted in a negative fashion, since their website was flooded with thousands of emails threatening to boycott MARS products to protest their sponsorship of Kyle Busch. Ironically, just a few days later, a similar boycott was threatened by Kyle's supporters, who felt he had not been adequately supported by the sponsor.
That is not "positive publicity," as proven by M&Ms decision to pull their logo from the side of the #18 car for the final two races of the season.
Congratulations on finding a way to express yourself without the name calling. If a few other posters could develop this skill, it would save them a lot of time composing posts that are immediately deleted due to violations of the "no name calling, no profanity" rule.
A question to those who feel that JGR was wrong in denying Kyle to drive in the Camping World or Nationwide series. Will you feel the same way when Kyle wins the Sprint Cup Championship?
ReplyDeleteDave sorry but there was not "thousands" of emails on M&M facebook page bashing Kyle.
ReplyDeleteIf that is the case than I will say that there was "THOUSANDS' supporting Kyle too. More like hundreds on both sides
A lot of the post where down by the same handful of people.
And yes the Kyle fans are ANGRY with the biased reporting on Kyle. The way NASCAR dealt with it.
Prime example when BURTON wrecked GORDAN at Texas UNDER caution. Gordan was put in the wall exactly like Ron. The media LOVED it. Thought it was great for the sport. LOVED the slapping fight they had. And at the same time where having a melt down over Kyle's hand gesture. NASCAR did NOTHING in that incident with the Jeffs, but fined Kyle. So if Kyle could of hurt Ron-Jeff could of hurt Jeff. You can't say they were different. BECAUSE they were NOT.
How about the fact that NASCAR did not give a flying fart when Old Reuti or Harvick both took Kyle out during the Chase. And with Harvick he couldn't freaking handle the fact that Kyle best KHI in both the Truck & NW race-so after Kyle races & passes him cleanly he stuffed Kyle in the wall. Caught his car on fire. AND FREAKING BRAGGED about it. And I could go on about the chain of invents with Harvicks setting out to destroy KBM. With negative false rumors about KBM and publicly stating that they would "wreck" KBM to win the Owners Championship. AT least Jimmy Spencer acknowledges the chain of events.
Also when the president of NASCAR stated that Kyle got punished because he is KYLE. MAJOR RED FLAGS. NASCAR is suppose to be neutral.
And yes we are angry with how JGR & MARS handles it. They made it far worse by doing what they did. Also would like to point out that while NASCAR media was talking non stop for 2 weeks about this. This story wasn't even an after thought on ESPN. And yes it is on most days in our house.
MARS saved money while at the same tine made money off of Kyle.
One more issue. Always hear that M&M's are market towards kids. REALLY???? I can't remember the last time I saw I kid in a M&M commercial. Matter of fact the current M&M commercial-the characters are in a bar. And they are using sexual "jokes" to sell their product.
M&M Mars over-reacted to the first wave of Kyle-haters. So, their website was bombarded, first by the anti-Kyle forces, then by the pro-Kyle forces. Had they simply ridden out the storm with an innocuous press release disapproving Kyle's actions at Texas while maintainng their continuing support for him, the whole thing would have blown over. Instead, nearly two months later, the fans ate still going at it on that website, with the vast majority now supporting Kyle and continuing to call for a boycott of MARS and support for Reeses/Hershey's, hardly a name MARS ever wants to SEE on its site, and the unexpected benefactor in all this poor judgment on MARS' part. They say they hold their values as a company "dear," yet if you call their customer service number, not one employeee can tell you what those values are. I will tell you: financial profit.
ReplyDeleteThat also begs the question, did the controversy ccst them any MONEY? As a private company, they will never tell us, but I am guessing the answer is NO, especially if they had handled it more professionally to begin with. In fact, they still have their inflammatory post about Kyle as the lead on their website. How smart is that continual reminder? And considering the way they make their money, their own hands are hardly clean as to "values."
Now Joe Gibbs is making a bad situation worse by appearing to threaten his own employee, an employeee whose ownership in trucks and the Nationwide series he has supported in the past. Yes, there were calls for Gibbs' demise on this site. More seriously, there are calls for Kyle to sit out the Cup season to honor his committment to the sponsors and employees of his truck and Nationwide teams. I think that would be a brilliant move on Kyle's part. At 26, missing a Cup season is a small price to pay to get out from under the iron fist of a man who is acting in direct opposition to his best driver and his future in the sport. There is NOTHING in Kyle's resume that suggests that sitting out Friday and Saturday races makes him a better or more focused driver on Sunday. And with KHI out of the picture, there is less reason than ever for events in the under-series to have a carryover to Cup racing. This is purely punitive on Gibbs' part with no redeeming value to the Cup team.
MARS was wrong. Gibbs is wrong. It is all up to Kyle now. He is almost certainly not going to drive for JGR in 2013, so this is a lame duck season for him in Cup anyway. And we all know how hard lame ducks work for employers they have come to resent. If Gibbs thinks an angry Kyle is a problem, a Kyle who doesn't give a darn will be even worse. It will all be checkers or wreckers for Kyle with no championship points to care about. Hope Joe has increased the payroll in the body shop. And maybe, ill will aside, it is time for Joe to step aside. He seems to have lost his perspective as an owner and thinks of himself more as a Billy Graham type evangelist than a sports team owner. So let him do his preaching full time and leave sports to younger, more capabale leaders.
Dave, just what was the negative impact to MARS of the Texas incident? There website was, in your words, "bombarded" with anti-Kyle forces, followed by their overreaction in pulling their sponsorhship, followed in turn by the site being "bombarded" by pro-Kyle forces. Those pro-Kyle forces are still posting their favoring a boycott of M&M/MARS in favor of REESES/Hershey's. Good PR work by Mars there, take a bow!
ReplyDeleteAnd again, what was the bottom line? Was M&M's hurt financially by Kyle's action at Texas? We will never know because they are a private company. But if they had handled the situation with any grace or savvy, the impact would have been infinitesimal.
Now Joe Gibbs is threatening his driver with further punitve action for driving in the truck and Nationwide series which Gibbs supported Kyle pursuing as an owner. Just how hypocritical is that? I would love to see Kyle announce he is sitting out the Cup series to devote full time to the truck and Nationwide teams, employees and sponsors. He won't do that, but he will also not give JGR the effort he has in the past. He will look at 2012 as a lame duck year and go at every race as checkers or wreckers with no championship to be concerned with. Hope Joe has extra money in the payroll for the body shop.
Kyle made one mistake. M&M/MARS continues tripping over its own corporate feet trying to have it both ways. And now Joe Gibbs is acting like the employer we all learned to hate and sabotage during our working life. Take Joe's money Kyle, but never trust him again.
RCB: That is a moot question. Kyle is not going to be running for the 2012 Cup championship, in spite of all statements to the contrary. 2012 is a lame duck season for him, and he will look to win races and make money, but he will make no effort to win JGR a Cup championship. Hypocritical owners breed "don't give a darn" emplyeees.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't think JGR is being hypocritical at all. They allowed Kyle (and Tony Stewart before him) to run in other series -- and even for other teams -- believing that a happy driver is a better driver.
ReplyDeleteThey changed that policy only after it bit them in the backside at Texas last November, putting JGR's relationship with its major sponsor in jeopardy. Once Kyle's "extracurricular racing" put JGR at risk (and when your multi-million dollar sponsor is unhappy, that's `at-risk,') it had to stop.
I understand that some of you don't think M&Ms was damaged by what happened at Texas. But they (M&Ms) clearly disagree, and that's really the only opinion that matters to JGR.
I watch and go to Nascar races to watch my favorite driver KYLE BUSCH period. If he does not race in the truck series then I will no longer go tp the race nor watch on tv same goes for Nationwide. I hate that this is happening, I will not get to watch my driver as much as I would like. I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way. I guess the truck series and Nationwide will not mind not getting my ticket sale money, or the vendors at the track or the concessions. Nascar is not hurting for fans or viewers are they? From Janice Miller
ReplyDeleteKyle should get out of his contract with JGR ASAP, even if it means sitting out the Cup season. Let M&M's see how happy they are with Michael McDowell in the car all season. Let Joe Gibbs see how much his multi-million dollar sponsor is really worth without his multi-million dollar driver. Sometimes principle is more important than money. And MARS and Gibbs need to learn that fast!
ReplyDeleteAs for Kyle, he is 26, the youngest driver in the Chase last year. He can afford to sit a year and tend to his truck and Nationwide teams. I know he won't do this, but it would be such a sweet answer to the hypocrisy of JGR and M&M's.
Do you truly believe Kyle will walk away from a championship-caliber Sprint Cup team and his multi-million dollar annual paycheck? Would you? How would he pay for his Nationwide and Truck Series teams?
ReplyDeleteI said I didn't think he would do it, just that it would be sweet justice. What he will more likely do is forget about the championship and go for wins and money. He will not be allowed by NASCAR or JGR to win a championship, so he should forget about that right now. Do the financial prep to start his own team as Tony did, even if it takes a few years with inferior rides like his bro is doing. There is NO WAY Kyle will be back with JGR in 2013, so he should start shopping now. As for the races themselves, checkers or wreckers! Points do not matter this year. He could actually enjoy himself for a change. And if Joe actually requested, not demanded, that he sit out truck and Nationwide races, he should drive as many of those as feels like it. This is Kyle's year to declare his independence.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think no team owner suspended Tony for assaulting a track promoter in Australia a year ago? BECAUSE TONY IS THE TEAM OWNER! And whoever is Tony's sponsor didn't wet his pants over a minor incident. M&M's is a terrible fit for Kyle anyway. Sooner rid of them the better, but take their money first.
And I know the situation is not entirely comparable, but I quit my job in November of 2011, without another one lined up, in this economy, because my supervisor was a "rhymes with witch," as Barbara Bush said. No regrets. Best move I ever made. (Surely you are not gonig to delete my post for quoting the former First Lady!)
I'm not sure Kurt's example is the best one for Kyle to follow, since Kurt will make a very small percentage of the salary he made last season in 2012.
ReplyDeleteAlso, while winning is always the best policy, the money is absolutely in the championship.
Sorry to hear about you quitting your job, hope you find a witch-free position that suits you.
My point is that Kyle should make NO effort toward the championship this year, because he does not have his team owner behind him. He should show up, collect his paycheck, and play checkers or wreckers with the crap cars they will undoubtedly give him. He should also manage to soil his M&M's suit before every race so he has to change into the Interstate Batteries gear. If Gibbs wants war with Kyle, Kyle should be ready to bring it to him.
ReplyDeleteYou really don't understand where I'm coming from, do you? I want Kyle to get back at Gibbs and M&M's any legal way he can. He can play at being a good boy while sabotaging everything the old man has done to try to break his spirit.
Again, I dare Gibbs and M&M's to see how much money they will make with Michael McDowell in the car!
And don't feel sorry for me - I quit, did you also not understand that part? Literally walked off the job and never went back. I certainly hope you don't get paid for doing this!
Dave, all this back and forth and you still don't get my point! Kyle needs to look out for Kyle. He can continue to collect a paycheck from JGR, but that is as far as he should put himself out this season. He is not in this for the championship - Joe Gibbs will not let it happen! And neither will NASCAR. So, Kyle should have fun with the crappy cars he will undoubtedly get and go for checkers or wreckers and take anybody else out who gets in his way!
ReplyDeleteYou apparently still believe that Kyle and JGR and M&M's will kiss and make up? NO WAY! This is a lame duck season for Kyle and he should treat it that way - and use his salary from Cup to fund and promote his truck and NW teams. He only has a ride in Cup because MARS wants their cash cow for another year.
Time to start looking elsewhere. All the big team owners are senior citizens. Eventually good rides with smart young owners will open up. With no good young drivers on the horizon, Kyle has many years to make up for the mistake of joining up with Hendrick and Gibbs. (Hendrick is certain to screw up Chase Elliott's career, so you can count him out right now, regardless of daddy, who is also only looking for Hendrick cash and has no loyalty to HMS as an organization.)
And why are you sorry I quit my job? I am fine financially for the long haul and there is nothing worse than working for someone for whom you have no respect. Just ask the Busch brothers if you doubt me on that one.
ReplyDeleteOK, Dave, to sum up your argument, Joe Gibbs sold out Kyle Busch to a candy company for 30 pieces of silver. Judas probably used the same logic - "it's jsut business. And this guy is nothing but a troublemaker anyway." Well, we all know how that ended. Hope Joe and Judas have fun swapping stories in Hell.
ReplyDeleteSo JGR "sold out" Kyle by allowing him to keep his job, even after Kyle himself said he expected to be fired? That makes perfect sense.
ReplyDeleteIf you consider that Kyle has really kept his job, your point would at least be arguable. He is a lame duck, not allowed to drive even the trucks and cars he OWNS, totally hog-tied in his Cup efforts as well. Let's see how this season plays out, how many dropped lugnuts, gas mileage miscalculations, blown engines, parts failures there are. Not even counting those "accidental" taps from Joey Logano who was only trying to be a good drafting partner. You keep score, I won't be bothering to watch any NASCAR races this year.
ReplyDeleteAnd to carry the analogy a step further,Judas never actually killed Jesus. Christ was free to go as soon as he bowed down to the PTB in the form of the Roman government and the Jewish leaders of his time. But, troublemaker that he was, he could not abide by the rules he did not believe in. The story just keeps getting more eerily similar. All we need is a cross. And I am sure Joe Gibbs has lots of those.
Wow. Comparing Kyle Busch to Jesus Christ? Really? Is it possible that you're taking this stock car racing thing just a weensy bit too seriously? As far as I can tell, Kyle hasn't been killed. In fact, he's being paid millions of dollars to do the thing he loves best in the world. Not exactly a pariah, in my view.
ReplyDeleteBut of course, you are welcome to disagree.
You don't even know what "pariah" means.
ReplyDeleteUpdate to above: after Kyle parks the 18, he will get into the 88 in an attempt to get Dale Junior his first victory in 12 years. Finishing points and wins go to driver who starts the car, not the one who finishes first. Junior and Rick Hendrick say this arrangement will liklely lead to a championship for Junior with minimal actual driving on his part (which is a tremendous relief to the 88 crew).
ReplyDeleteI only made this comparison to attempt to be outrageousness enough to make you take this seriously. Destroying a man's career IS serious business. You still think this is a nice little story where everybody gets what they deserve and everybody lives happily ever after.
ReplyDeleteUnder the terms Joe Gibbs is dictating, Kyle's career is dead. He can either accept those terms, which is he apparently going to do or he can fight them. The result will be the same either way. A miserable year in 2012 with no support from Gibbs, followed by the merciful end of his relationship with Gibbs. The only purpose of this lame duck year for Kyle is the same as Joe's purpose in selling Kyle out - money. He certainly will be given no opportunity to run for a championship and will probably not even bother to try to make the Chase.
The best Kyle can hope for is to pocket enough seed money to start his own team some time in the near future.
In any case, I won't be around to see the "drama" unfold. I am through with NASCAR, like so many millions of its former fans. I skipped the last three race weekends of 2011 and did not miss a thing.
There are plenty of other things to do on Sunday afternoons, including ministering to the poor and homeless. That seems preferable to watching a sport which can no longer be taken seriously.
For a guy that is "through with NASCAR," you sure do spend a lot of time here! You submitted the above post a total of five times with only minimal variation in wording. That's a colossal waste of your time; time that could certainly be better spent "ministering to the poor and homeless."
ReplyDeleteIf you really think JGR is "destroying (Kyle's) career" by paying him millions of dollars to drive in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, there's not much left for us to talk about. We apparently live on different planets. I only wish someone at Motor Racing Network or SiriusXM NASCAR Radio would decide to destroy MY career!
Best of luck with the ministry, my friend!